Saturday, 6 June 2009

Who said ....

Who said...
My policy on gays and lesbians is very simple.I don't think councils should be spending money on them parading through town advertising their sexuality

...has also stated he intends to cut funding for translation services for non-English speakers in the borough.

They also advocate withdrawal from the European Union, the "right to enjoy and celebrate Englishness", an end to political correctness and an end to mass immigration.

English freedoms and values, not multiculturalism

No you are wrong it wasn't the BNP or UKIP...these words were in fact spoken by Peter Davies the newly elected Mayor of Doncaster and an English Democrat. Clearly Doncaster will no longer be a town where there will be a welcome to anyone bar white, middle class and English speaking.

Didn't someone else legislate against 'those that were perceived as being different' in 1933?

BNP/UKIP/English Democrats; can anyone tell me the difference?


Anonymous said...

I don't see anything wrong with what he is saying. I think that most people who move to England....want to learn the language and assimilate. What you are saying is that they should be helped to not do this.....He is also totally correct about mass immigration. Notice he did say...mass immigration and not just 'immigration'. Why is multiculturalism to be celebrated? I don't know. You tell me. Have you been listening to Peter Hain to much? Of course, NuLabour have set the are only living your life sheepishly within it....It will take time for you to change.

Congrats to Peter Davies. There must be some Welsh in there somewhere....;-)

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

The point I was making was to pose the question what is the policy differences between the three parties mentioned.

Draig said...

England is more naturally a right-wing country. let's face it. What's more worrying is that ED is marketing itself as part of some kind of "Nationalist alliance" along with Plaid and the SNP!

Anonymous said...

I don't for one moment think that Wales is that much different to England.....It may have supported Labour but it is very conservative and not that progressive.....and even the parts which are Liberal with a capital L like Ceredigion, it's not left wing at all. It's just in the minds of a few like Leanne Wood and Bethan Jenkins etc that Wales is a kind of Celtic version of Cuba.

Crefishgyn said...

A sad example of a "Littler Englander" bigot.

I was brought up in another country, as an immigrant, where people of all nationalities were encouraged to be proud of their distinctiveness and traditions, but also be full and equal members of their new nation.

Unity and strength was built from the mutual respect of diversity. That is a model for Wales. Not the paranoid foreigner-bashing of the British right-wing.

Plaid Whitegate said...

Politically Wales is very different to England and becoming more so. Areas such as Ceredigion and Brecon and Radnor would be solidly Tory in Hereford or Shropshire but are not here. Labour is being challenged from the left by Plaid not from the right by the Tories. The political culture generally is further to the left - no BNP councillors for example (although I am not complacent about their threat in any way)
If only we were a Celtic version of Cuba - no banking debt, a sustainable economy and it might stop raining quite as much.

Plaid Whitegate said...

@ the first anonymous

The day we live our lives according to Peter Vain is the day we have lost the will to live.

Lehendakari said...

The first anonymous.

What you advocate is the creation of a community of second class citizens who are entitled to less services than the indigenous Anglo Saxon population rather than provide services according to their needs. Whether you like it or not, you are close to Nick Griffin with your xenophobia. What this Mayor is doing is what Hitler did to the Jews when he achieved power in 1933, they immediately became second class citizens.

Anonymous said...


Do you mind saying which country that was which "encouraged to be proud of their distinctiveness and traditions, but also be full and equal members of their new nation." There is a difference between being proud of you distinctiveness and refusing to assimilate at all.....which by many accounts seems to be happening in many towns/cities in England.

I agree regarding the points you make about Cuba Plaid Whitegate. :-)

Anonymous said...


Please don't play the NuLabour tune....maybe you are a member. I havn't heard Mr Davies mention anything regarding race and he hasn't asked anybody to wear a star on their clothes to date. And are you comparing me go Nick Griffin. And I suppose you are the re-incarnation of Christ? Grow up.

Anonymous said...

Plaid should be supportive of English nationalism and not get conned into some left-wing alliance. If people move to England they should learn English. As Welsh nationalist are we really saying that if someone moves to another country lets say Iceland or France they shouldn't be expected (and want to) learn Icelandic or French?

England is different to Wales it's only natural that their idea of nationality should be different to ours. If not, then what's the point of celebrating nationality and nationalism.

I don't agree with him views on Gays and Lesbians - though, he didn't say he was against them either. But this comment;

"They also advocate withdrawal from the European Union, the "right to enjoy and celebrate Englishness", an end to political correctness and an end to mass immigration."

is perfectly reasonable and acceptable political position. There are plenty of left-wingers who are in favour of taking the UK out of Europe, there's nothing wrong with celebrating Englishness (would Welsh nationalists prefere he celebrated Britishness - no thanks!). Most people are opposed to mass migration - notice 'mass'.

These aren't fascistic views. Plaid and Welsh nationalists need not take a socialist international knee jerk reaction. The British left has not been good to Welsh aspirations. I've been insulted more as a Welshman by 'international socialists' than by English nationalism. It was Britishness which made Welshmen fight in pointless wars not England. I'm all for English nationalism it's a much less offencive and imperialist project than Britishness.

'Little Englander' isn't a term of abuse either. It was coined by those who were against England/UK fighting the Boer War - what's wrong with that?

Beware the latent 'normal' British nationalism of left wing socialists. As a Welsh nationalist I was very glad to see the English Democrats win in Doncaster. They'r big grown up people, these English you know, I'm sure they know how to run their own country.

Calling everyone 'fascist' is one big reason the left wing are an irrelevant micro party in England now.

It's the Brit Nats who scare me:


Plaid Whitegate said...

I fail to see what Plaid's inclusive approach to national identity has to do with a reactionary party like the English Democrats, who are "BNP Lite".
The extreme right is desperately trying to shake off the racist and fascist tag (witness Griffin's attempts to adopt Churchill's mantle in his recent election broadcast), but the fact remains that these groups are dangerous. I want nothing to do with them - there are plenty of progressive left people (like Mark Perryman - in England, who are light years away from the BNP, NF and English Democrats.
Reactionary English nationalism, as the original quote reveals, defines itself on racial exclusivity - and would probably refer to John Major's nostalgic vision of "warm beer, cricket and village greens" to hark back to a 'golden age' that never really was.
I hope Doncaster is a flash in the pan but it's happening because there's no credible progressive alternative to Labour in working-class towns.
Here it's different. I'm quite chuffed that the mayor of a town like Colwyn Bay is a Muslim Plaid Cymru member - I doubt the English Democrats would be as welcoming of Abdul Khan.

Anonymous said...

Plaid Whitegate,

You say that you doubt that the English Democrats would be welcoming Abdul Khan......Maybe you should ask them instead of making some statement about which you really have no knowledge about. It's good that Plaid Cymru welcomes people of all backgrounds but hopefully because they want to be a part of Wales which is different to England and inique in this world we live in. I hope he is embracing Welshness....something he might be able to enrich with his own world view. I hope that is the case and that Plaid hasn't forgotten the reason for it's existence and just hoping to gain votes at all costs.

Once Wales is independent.....I will be glad to vote for a party which isn't tied to this almost socialist nonsense.

Plaid Whitegate said...

I think that joining Plaid is a good example of someone embracing Wales (although it's not compulsory!)

From what I've seen of the English Democrats (and their alleged links with the English First Party), I'm happy with my original statement.

Anonymous said...

Plaid Whitegate said...

"I think that joining Plaid is a good example of someone embracing Wales (although it's not compulsory!)"

So what is the alternative which is allowed? To live here and not embrace it.......? I thought you were a nationalist party!

wirrall said...

The English Democrats are right wing and anti-multiculturalism. They aren;t fascists but they are right wing. There are ways of being proudly English without being ani- other people, and the English democrats have not found that way. They are insular, anti-Europe, anti-immigration. That's why, as a proud Englishman, don't like them. But they are not fascists by any definition of that term.
Billy Bragg is more to my taste, and the Englishness I aspire to is modelled on the values he has.
But please don't debase the language of politics by accusing people of being fascists when they aren't. There's a difference between being fascist and being right-wing, just as there is between being left wing and being a communist.
Here's to Welsh nationalism. You boys need it. You've been at the arse-end of the Labour political class's priority list for bloody decades, and I'm not sure why you put up with it.
If I lived in Wales I'd vote for you.

Justme said...


I will point out again....Mr Davies didn't say 'anti-immigration' but 'anti-mass immigration'. I am of the same opinion. Will the Plaid memebers tell me here if what he said was wrong regarding immigration? And regarding multi-culturalism.....why is it to be embraced? It isn't obvious to me to as somebody who is out there who might vote for you....sell it to me.....

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

The point I was making that if I hadn't told you who said those words, would you have probably not as they could have been spoken by an UKIP/BNP or ED candidate or supporter. Secondly you can read into the comments that they are 'intolerant' and suggest exclusiveness rather than inclusiveness, the comments seem to stigmatise minorities or those that are different. Everyone reads things differently...that's my perception, but thank you all for your varying contributions and views.

Anonymous said...

but this happened in England Taff so why should it concern you as a welsh nat? now if they win Monmouth that's another story.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

Oh dear, wanting to stifle free speech now as well then!

Anonymous said...

Well, it appears that Wales isn't that left leaning after-ll!

Steve Uncles said...

What you appear to be saying is that Welsh Nationalism is OK, but English Nationalism in not.

English Democrats polled more votes then Plaid Cymru in the 2009 EU Elections, with a shoe string of a Campaign.

Watch this space