Saturday, 16 January 2010

UKIP's True Colours

I have written on this blog before to argue that there is not a blind bit of difference between UKIP and the BNP. A recent decision by Pearson and Farage to move UKIP away from single issue anti Europeanism to an attempt to steal BNP votes by jumping into the immigration fray and calling for the banning of the wearing of the burka by Islamic women is clear evidence of this.

This is a cynical attempt to steal BNP's ground and its a sad day when there are two political parties fighting for what is nothing more than the bigoted and intolerant vote.

Where does this fit in with our committment to freedom and democracy? Do we not believe in free speech, freedom of expression and religious freedom? What harm does allowing a Muslim woman to wear a burka, its her choice. Today's Times leader calls it the Veil of Ignorance:

But their new policy of banning people from wearing the burka is a step towards a very dark place indeed, for them and for their followers. They should stop now, before it is too late... The call to ban the burka is deeply cynical, for the political thinking behind their policy is obvious. Very few people share UKIP’s European obsession. Indeed, in a recent poll only 3 per cent named the European Union as an important political issue. Since UKIP’s poll rating hovers at 4 per cent, this suggests that at least a quarter even of the party’s current supporters think it is being a bit of a bore. So the party has decided to change the subject. It will campaign on immigration.

It is, therefore, stirring racial discontent, for its own electoral benefit and this is reprehensible. Calling for withdrawal from the EU is respectable, if wrong-headed. Increasing fear and misunderstanding between communities is not...

The most offensive UKIP assertion is that wearing the burka is inconsistent with British values. Advocates of the policy then point out (without irony) that the French, whose example is rarely cited elsewhere in UKIP literature, are trying to implement a similar policy.

What is inconsistent with British values is picking on people quietly going about their business in religious garb of their own choice and banning it. If UKIP properly understood this country, it would appreciate that. There are Islamists who doubtless wish to ban Eurosceptics wearing tweed jackets over v-neck jumpers and checked shirts. And The Times would defend UKIP against such calls because freedom to worship, and freedom of speech, is the British value that matters above all others.

As Kris Kristofferson would say, "We all hate things we don't understand."


alanindyfed said...

What you imply is that UKIP and the BNP should be banned also for trying to ban the burkha.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

no that isn't what I'm implying at all, even though groups like the EDL and Mulims4Uk could well be prevented from parading under UK terror laws or Articles 10 and 11 of the Human Rights Convention under the public order exemption, they should only be banned if they inciting racial hatred or other public order offences.

alanindyfed said...

It seems to me that the more you provoke and interfere the worse you get back. Britain and the US have terrorist problems because of this. Sweden and Ireland do not.

rob mcnaughton said...

I think if certain religions had a birth rate of 2.2 kids and not 4.5 with the added bonus of friends and family also coming to Britain then the feeling of being swamped by people who do not fit in with the current culture would be less.

Saudi Arabia simply bans churches, as they might inspire the locals to believe in christianity.

Yet we give up our soul so that others can openly talk about usurping the system, through birth rate if not through bombings.

If the "new British" were returned to whence they came if they got a custodial sentence greater than 6 months I wonder what percentage of males would be sent back? If the government had the testiculakr fortitude to do it. Behave and you can stay, misbehave and you have 24hours. That would be a deterrent.
As my friend now retiring this year after 30 years from the prison service says, he is glad to be out of it as the main languages in prison these days in the gangs are not english.

Immigrants have caused more crime, and different crimes that were less common in a monoglot and monocultural society. Sorry but that is the way it is.
Hiding the stats by redifining what is British works a little, but 2nd generation drug users from a caribbean background will not pass my test until they go to school, stop routine violence and start working for them and their families. their results, particulalrly males, is a disgrace and needss to be addressed. The lack of anuclear family has a knock on effect of course.
And no, it is not a rise in Welsh speaking criminals!

Plaid Gwersyllt said...


Thanks for your comments your friend will also know that there are powers to deport foreign nationals who have committed a crime in the UK, all you have to show is that their presence in the UK is not conducive to the public good. The problem is that the courts are not utilizing the power.
The point that is being made here is that political parties are stigmatising a section of society for their dress code and playing on people's fears. By the way did your friend say how many women wearing burkas are in our prisons?

Pelagius said...

Don't disagree with what you say about the two parties you mention. But I think their attitudes are more widespread than just them. My thesis is that they are part and parcel of British nationalism in general. The UK is still imperialist. Look at its 'foreign' wars; attacks on Islam, attitudes to Wales and the Welsh language. Labour and Conservatives are in open competition with these two parties: anti-Europeanism is a form of racism. I haven't seen statistical evidence but it seems there's a huge cross-over between BNP and Labour voters. That's why Labour is so fixated with them. They give them the oxygen of publicity all the time!

We must promote the alternative of a civic Welsh nationalism as part of the European and global family with no nuclear weapons. QED.

Anonymous said...

God, you're ignorant.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

Who me or Pelagius? Would you care to elaborate or are you happy to hide behind a cloak of anonymity. Anyway thanks for your considered opinion it is as always valued!

Plaid Whitegate said...

@RobMcNaughton: "certain religions" have high birth rates. What, like Catholics?
The unsubstantiated attempts to link immigrants and crime are straight out of the BNP manual. "My mate says" etc.
This racist claptrap has been used against "lesser" people since time immemorial but, fair play to racist Rob, he manages to reserve some of his bile for those of a "caribbean background".
UKIP seems just up his street.

Anonymous said...

Yes where are the facts that immigrants commit more crime or is it just BNP say so, "I'm not racist but!!

rob mcnaughton said...


Happy to elaborate. I would say the name of the prison for verification but he is a civil servant and as such his comments are off the record.
He felt system was letting people down, and he is at the coalface.
The simple facts are that the Hong Kong chinese were assimilated into Britain in the 60's and 70's with little problem. They opened restaurants and did well at scholl. More to the point however, they did not commit pro rata a great deal of violent crime.
FYI, my 2 business partners are Muslim. And have been my colleagues for the last 16 years.
We have good raucous discussions on Malaysia and Lebanon where they originally came from.
Back in the mid 90's I admit I was concerned if my daughter became friends with them as they were different, now they play together, and still have no bloody beer in the house when I visit. Although if the ladies wore were the full burqa I would have some issues still.
As for the caribbean lads, I lived thru choice in brixton (off acre lane sudbourne road up from lambeth council offices)in 1988 for 4 weeks, got muggesd twice, once for money and once after I had no money the gang slashed me and stole my KFC.
My car outside the house was attacked and the back window put in and a box which was empty on the back seat was stolen.
Driving outside Brixton tube station, a bloke dressed like huggy bear pulled up outside rhe Nat West and when I honkled my horn he bent down and pulled a gun out at me, smiling as his girl waddled in her tight dress and got money out of the machine.
I moved out and realised whilst it is wrong to generalise the rate I was going i would not make 1989!
To those who say it could happen anywhere the answer is yes, but the probabilities are that it is more likely to be in Brixton, as I proved.

I think the high rate of catholics is also a concern for the majority, coming from a mixed protestant catholic family with very close relatives in strabane including my own catholic daughter who has a couple of kids already at 21 I can see what is happening, watch for a tweak on the borders of the 6 counties over time, to make sure the catholic minority does not get to 51%.
And the same maths will be required in the UK when minorities choose to vote for their own religious representative rather than labour in future.
Whether you accept any of the above as fact is your call. It is correct.
Had the guy not laughed when he slashed me across the arm and took the KFC (3 pieces and chips) off me as i begged for my life then I would not be here today.

Plaid Whitegate said...

At least you're an honest racist, rather than a closet one.
You base your assessment of the African-Caribbean community throughout the UK on 4 weeks spent in Brixton in 1988. Had you been mugged by a couple of Welsh speakers, presumably you'd want them kicked out of the UK too?
Your alarmist views are very odd considering you have business partners who are muslim and a daughter who you seem to think is over-breeding.
The system IS letting people down but to ascribe it to criminal immigrants is not acceptable.

Anonymous said...

You are being childish by calling Rob a racist. He told you his experiences and you then labelled him a racist. You shure you're not a closet memeber of NuLabour?

Proper Tidy said...

Sounds pretty racist to me.

That areas have higher crime levels and a gang culture amongst youth is not down to the ethnicity of the residents but to the poverty, deprivation and alienation of these communities.

The greatest cause of crime is and always has been economic - not purely in the sense of need but in the wider sense of inequality and disenfranchisement. Ethnicity & nationality are only contributing factors in the sense that they create false divisions which aggravate an already existing situation. These are the consequences, the causes are always economic. This is why prejudice and racism increase when there is huge pressure on resources.

But why is there huge pressure on resources? Is it because all these pesky immigrants are flooding in and conspiring to overbreed and dominate? Or is it because both Tories and New Labour have sold off our housing stock, widened inequality, and created an ultra-competitive labour market which forces workers into fierce competition with each other, ultimately to their own detriment?

Ukip have had an easy ride, largely because the political establishment have promoted Ukip as the marginally less extreme alternative to the BNP. But this scapegoating of minorities - eastern European and particularly Muslim - is far more widespread than the far right alone. The political establishment are culpable. You only have to hear the venomous reactionary spew coming from Tom Harris MP (Labour) for confirmation.

The minorities of the UK are paying the price for the calculated actions of, in particular, New Labour, in destroying any conscious semblance of class, economic and social, and replacing it with the politics of identity.

Identity politics is a load of crap. I have far more in common with a 'Caribbean', Bangladeshi or Sudanese working class person than I ever will with a 'native' toff like Pearson or Griffin.

Plaid Whitegate said...

@Anon 20:40
His experiences (2 muggings) don't justify him attributing criminal behaviour to an entire race.
To me that's racism - please correct me if I'm wrong. The BNP and UKIP feed on people's general negative feelings re the economy, political establishment etc by scapegoating minorities. It used to be the Irish, blacks and now it's muslims.
Rob opened his comments by having a go at religions that "had a birth rate of 4.5". He didn't say which religion but it was obvious from his reference to Saudi that he meant Islam.
People have lots of babies for many social and economic reasons - in living memory that was the case in Wales. To ascribe that to a religion is crazy as well as offensive.

Plaid Whitegate said...

Proper Tidy, I was with you until the last paragraph!
Along with class, a shared cultural identity is an important part of belonging, whether it's a language, TV viewing, music or football team.

rob mcnaughton said...

It is so easy for people to come out and say you are a racist.
Remember I chose to live in Brixton as I had heard it was vibrant and happening, plus the tube was better than catching the bus from streatham first.
I went to nightclubs drinking Red stripe when I was about the only white face there! Music was cracking though.
If I was racist would I have chosen to move to Brixton?, I think not lad.
I have given an honest asessment of what was wrong, and the shock and stress of it was so bad I got on plane, gave my job up and came to australia.

If I cannot see someone's face when I want to communicatwe I find it offensive. Sorry if that is the case but it is.
By all means where what you like but when talking to the public in a public role I think how you act is important, not just mumbling words through fabric.
My comments about my biz colleagues were also fair and reasonable, it took years to be able to critiocise ecah other though, it is hard to do it when there are cultural barrioers that say to do so is OBVIOUSLY racist, in much the same way helping kids at camps is also frowned upon in case people think you are OBVIOUSLY getting too close and must be a paedophile.
It seems we are all guilty until proved innocent, and the media scare tactics continue along those lines.
How many white guys who you know and are not racist in your world would go into equal share partnership with muslims? Not 100% I can tell you!