Saturday, 22 May 2010

Oath of Allegience.

Congratulations especially to Andrew George the Liberal Democrat MP for St Ives for taking the oath of allegience in Cornish; and his hard work in gaining official recognition for the Cornish language is to be commended. Likewise it was nice to see so many Welsh and Scottish MP's take the oath in Welsh and Gaelic; personally I would like to see all Welsh MP's take the oath in Welsh, it shouldn't be too difficult:
Yr wyf yn addo, trwy gymorth y Goruchaf, y byddaf yn ffyddlon ac yn wir deyrngar i’w Mawrhydi, y Frenhines Elizabeth, ei hetifeddion a’i holynwyr, yn ôl y Ddeddf, yn wyneb Duw.

MP's have to take the oath in English first, then either Welsh, Gaelic or Cornish.

It is not only MP's that have to swear an oath of allegience but many public servants including the Police. The problem here is that there are different oaths for England and Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland. The oath of allegience for Police Officers in England and Wales swears allegience to the monarch whilst the oath in Scotland and the North of Ireland doesn't:
England and Wales:
"I . . . . . of . . . . . do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will, to the best of my skill and knowledge, discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law."

Scotland:
"I hereby do solemnly and sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of constable."

The North of Ireland.
"I... hereby do solemnly and sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of constable, and that in so doing I will act with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, uphold fundamental human rights and accord equal respect to all individuals and to their traditions and beliefs."

Shouldn't Police Officers and Public Servants in Wales not have the same rights as those in Scotland and the North of Ireland? Oaths of allegience's should be to the public we serve not the Monarchy.

18 comments:

glynbeddau said...

It is worse than that . In Northern Ireland, members of the Northern Ireland assembly only have to make a sign Pledge of Office... This is of course to accommodate Sinn Féin members who presumably if forced to take the Oath would not take their seats in the same manner as they do in the UK parliament Members in Wales must swear the Oath. It is shameful that a pacifist republican elected to any Assembly or Parliament who answered his/her's own conscience who refused to take such an oath would be excluded from the democratic process. At the very least the part her heirs and successors should be removed. Republicanism is honourable and democratic.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

Needs to be changed for every public office in Wales.

Anonymous said...

More proof if it were needed that Plaid has its finger on the pulse of the Welsh public. Flags on number plates, constitutional settlements and now oaths.

How do you do it?

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

Why don't you ask how they did it in the North of Ireland or Scotland, but no they have what they want. Why do you apologists for all things Welsh have so little ambition for your country? WE do it by being proud of who we are and what we aspire to be. How do you manage to be so negative about all things Welsh?

Anonymous said...

Look not obsessing about tedious symbols and Flags is not about a lack of ambition.

Trust a jingoistic Nationalist to think that they are what being Welsh is about.

NitroTab said...

glynbeddau wrote "At the very least the part her heirs and successors should be removed. Republicanism is honourable and democratic."

A Republic and a Democracy are two very different systems of governance glynbeddau. You can't be a Republican and believe in a Democracy at the same time as they are entirely different.

A common mistake a lot of people make actually.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

I would agree that nationhood and civic nationalism is about more than just flags and symbols but they are also important in making sense of our national identity. Why else did Gordon Brown want to celebrate Britishness and what else are the nationality ceremonies except British jingoism. We are all nationalists, what is different is what we identify ourselves as, Welsh, English or British. Hope you will be equally critical when the World Cup is on and England will be wrapping themselves in the St Georges flag, but I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

You are confusing the issue, waving the flag at the football is fine as it is spontaneous and part of the event.

Politicians using symbols in an attempt to create a exaggerated sense of nationhood is embarrassing, crass and in extreme cases dangerous.

So in answer to your question no I will not give a rat’s arse what England fans do.

I will however continue to mock politicians who rap themselves in the flag to score outdated political points.

Plaid Whitegate said...

"You can't be a Republican and believe in a Democracy at the same time as they are entirely different."

I know it's been hot today but that's probably the most stupid comment I've heard in a while.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

You are confusing the issue, waving the flag at the football is fine as it is spontaneous and part of the event.

Waving a flag is a demonstration of national pride and a sense of belonging. You really need to differenciate between inclusive civic nationalism and exclusive ethnic nationalism, as it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

Also you fail to answer my comment about Gordon Brown wrapping himself in a British identity...do you mock him? no of course not you'd rather be subservient to the state than stand up for the rights and priveleges that we should have in common with the Scots and Irish. Your subservience to lackey politicians shows a lack of self confidence, self esteem and self respect.

P Hughes said...

To Anon - 'Look not obsessing about tedious symbols and Flags is not about a lack of ambition.

Trust a jingoistic Nationalist to think that they are what being Welsh is about.' Of course you fail to answer the question about Gordon 'British jobs for British workers' Brown obsession with flying the union jack and Britishness (which was more about his obvious discomfort about his own Scottishness and the SNP) and Ian Lucas who spent a lot of his parlimentary time coming up with crackpot ideas about redesigning the union jack. I am waiting for you to call them 'jingosistic British nationalists' but I wont be holding my breath...

Anonymous said...

I did not fail to answer your question, I am very clear. A politician that raps himself or herself in the flag is asking to be mocked. That includes Gordon. Perhaps you assumed I was only talking about Plaid because you are touchy on this subject. I do not blame you Plaids record of, let’s all get behind the flag politics is embarrassing.

So civic nationalism is a positive thing is it? Why? What’s next a facebook campaign calling on a town to be more your sort of Welsh, with more flags and statues of dead princes? Oh wait you have already done that.

Plaid Gwersyllt said...

Because civic nationalism is inclusive it doesn't seek to exclude like the ethnic nationalism of the BNP and UKIP. Your comments beg the question whether you understand the nature of nationalism, I think not. Most national politicians use their national identity to garner support...Roald Reagan was never photographed without the backdrop of the Stars and stripes, hand on heart singing the anthem or in scholl taking the oath of allegience with children. That however was ethnic nationalism where America was the light and the old USSR was the darkness; Reagan succesfully harnessed religion into his American nationalism. Hope this helps.

Rhys Gethin said...

The Anonymous poster has done really well, he's done a number of posts without once mentioning 'Welshies'

Anonymous said...

Oh if Ronald Reagan did it, it must be fine.

Look we all know the difference between the sort of crap the BNP espouse and your civic nationalism. I just don’t like it. I also mistrust politicians who espouse it. We know who we are without oaths or flags. Plus it always strikes me a s a cheap way of Plaid supporters trying to pick up votes by showing us how different we are to the bloke down the road.

"The Anonymous poster has done really well, he's done a number of posts without once mentioning 'Welshies"

Yawn yawn.

P Hughes said...

Anon - Welsh nationalism is peaceful and constitutional brand of civic nationalism for self-government. I have always and will always support Plaid because I believe that Wales should be a free, full member of the European family of nations, to work with other like minded nations to establish peace, justice and human rights wherever conflict and oppression exists. Wales can work, we have the proof, many small countries are not just surviving they are flourishing, and its not a great mystery, or some panacea, Wales can do that too.

That's not about flag waving or being jingoistic, it's a vision which is inspired by passion and love, this is what unites and strengthens us above all, our love to this little nation. And I’m not afraid of using that word. Gwyn Alf Williams said we can only say that we truly love Wales if put our hands on our hearts and say the we love Merthyr or Caernarfon bus station in the rain.

NitroTab said...

@ Plaid Whitegate

A republican form of government is not the same as a Democracy.

Go here: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html and read for yourself.

You can't have a democracy and a republic at the same time as they are two very different ideologies and forms of governance.

I don't know, I guess ignorance and arrogance are bliss for some.

glynbeddau said...

Nitro Tab
"A republican form of government is not the same as a Democracy.
"
This argument is based on the small government position as exposed by the Tea Party of the US. It is the idea of the far right who hate any form of social democracy. For me a republic is simply a form of government which elects its head of state, and a democracy is a one who allows all its citizens to do so equally and fairly. The arguments of the Tea Party have no relevance in this debate. (But unfortunately it may in the wider future of world politics.